The Urgency of Grace with David Zahl

Grace as a sense of relief.

What does grace feel like? What does it look like? When I think of relief, I am reminded of a Bible Quiz Bowl I took part in when I was 13. I gave the correct answer and let out a sound of relief, and collapsed in my chair. Relief. Grace might feel like relief.

In the latest episode of Church and Main, I got to talk with David Zahl, founder of Mockingbird Ministries and author of The Big Relief: The Urgency of Grace in a Worn-Out World. The focus of the episode centers on the transformative power of grace in an era marked by relentless pressure, burnout, and societal fragmentation.

For Zahl, grace is a crucial lifeline offering relief and fostering real human connection. He notes that one of the places that can be short on grace can be the church itself, which focuses more on judgment and performance instead of humility and vulnerability. During the interview, he talks about the fact that we know each other by our shortcomings and not what we are good at:

“If you want to … know them, if you want anything remotely approaching intimacy, you need to know what they struggle with, what their blind spots are…what their failures are. And, you know, same with love. Like you can, I can respect you for your achievements, but no one, I know no one feels loved, truly loved unless their whole self is loved…you feel loved when someone sees the chinks in the armor and sticks around and offers you favor, goodness grace, whatever, in the middle of your lack of deserving. Like… that's where love really happens.” (David Zahl)

When pastors and church leaders come clean on their own need for grace, the end result might be more compassionate and authentic communities.

The conversation with David boils down to the fact that grace isn’t simply a theological concept but the basis for healing and hope in our world. If there is no grace, there is no hope.

You can listen to this episode at the Church and Main website or wherever you listen to podcasts. Remember to rate and/or review the podcast!